Today, I come with an article. It’s in Danish, but I guess Google Translate can help getting to the main point (which is what I am going to discuss here).
http://www.business.dk/arbejdsmarked/danmark-siger-nej-til-europaeiske-studerende
The problem seems to be that more students arrive to Denmark in the well-known ERASMUS programs than Danes go out. Because the number of foreign students wanting to study in Denmark is growing much faster than the number of Danes that want to study abroad, the Universities are going to have to reject a lot more people in the coming years (several hundreds more).
To me, they make it sound (and this happens often) as if foreign students were coming here to abuse the Danish well-fare system with some sort of premeditation. I don’t know how it works in the rest of Europe, but I paid for my Erasmus program, in my home university. Paid for courses that I wasn’t even gonna take there. So maybe, a solution would be that part of that money would have gone to the university that is receiving the students?
Apart from that, the coming students might not be paying for the education itself, but they are bringing A LOT of money to the country in terms of, for example, taxes. Some of them try to find a job, some successfully, many come and spend all their savings in studying here (as I did the first time). Because, ladies and gentlemen, we do not get SU. And this is something many people (Danish students or employers) seems to be surprised about when they find out. I’ve found a lot of people who assumed we were also – as Danes – getting money from the government for basically doing nothing (yeah, okay, studying). Most of the students don’t fulfill all the requirements necessary to obtain SU as an international citizen.
I understand that there need to be cutbacks somewhere, but they need to be aware of the impact that is going to have. I wouldn’t be here today, doing my masters, engaged to the love of my life, working in a wonderful place… if I hadn’t spent my Erasmus year here 3 years ago. Who knows where I’d be, probably in some other country (where they would be pleased to have someone with my qualifications ;P).
Honestly, for a place that seems to have the will of recruiting international high-skilled workers and retain them, closing the doors to education here doesn’t seem like a good move.
34 Comments
34 Comments
Sweden would have welcomed you with opened hands
Should have settled in Stockholm instead, maybe! <3
The article says that it cost’d Denmark almost a billion kroners, and they only get nearly half in return, cause few danes chose to go abroad. I find it fair, that they wan’t to limit the access. I don’t know how the Erasmus system works, but if it cost’s the state more that it gains, then they need to take action.
I understand their position, but it’s a shame. Specially cause some of the people who start studying here end up staying long-term and enriching society with multiculturalism and an international mindset. Maybe the answer would be that some more Danes decide to spend some time abroad?
Now you’re catching on! See, it’s not just the people everybody here fears: Denmark doesn’t really want ANYBODY.
Well, I’m still not 100% of that opinion I’m afraid, although I see that in certain situations Denmark makes it very difficult for foreigners to come/stay here.
“Now you’re catching on! See, it’s not just the people everybody here fears: Denmark doesn’t really want ANYBODY.”!!
I don’t agree. I think it is true that foreigners enrich Denmark(and I actually wiew danes as openminded and curious), and more Danes should go abroad and study/work. Danes don’t fear everybody. But mayby we have it a little “too good” in this small country. And yes, some danes fear foreigners – but please be fair, Heidi. In every country, there are people who doesn’t like foreigners!
Anne
Anne, there’s a lot of people (specially in other blogs) that have had bad experiences with the Danish bureaucracy and think of Danes as absolute xenophobes. If you ask me, the kind of generalizations and almost hate-talk I read on those blogs (towards Danes) are the same things they are complaining about (about Danes).
I am not saying immigration laws are not very strict (which they are), but if one moves here knowing that (ok, laws change pretty often, that’s true) it’s something we have to bear with.
As always – your so clever;) I have eperienced generalisations about Danes – and danes doing the same. And it is a shame.
I’m not going to look up those blogs…it would be too time-consuming, because I would want to defend, defend and defend. And that would probably end up as an attack on their oppinion.
When I lived in Spain, I was very eager to assimilate(think it’s the right word – your the english “professor/professionel
”), in order to show respect to the host country. And to be honest – I find it disrespectful when people make generalizations about others.
Fx. I was once invited to dinner at the house of the spanish girl. One of her friends was from Latvia. She told me, that she found it wierd, that danes never bake bread or cakes themselves!
Me, and several others, said that we didn’t find that to be true. Her reason for saying what she did: at her workplace, no one ever brought homebaked cake or bread – it was always store-bought!
My respect for her, at that point, fell rapidly.
And that was something as stupid as whether danes sometimes bake bread themselves! (just had to get that of my chest)….you can wake up now:-)
Anne
There is some real heartbreaking stories on those blogs about for example families being separated (mother or father deported) because of bureaucratic issues , so I can understand some of the anger. Though then stories pass from one to another and people just empathizes and criticizes (sometimes without knowing the story first-hand).
I agree with you in the fact that generalizations should be avoided, but I think they are as common as they are inevitable. For example, I went on a lecture (by a renown anthropologist) about Danish culture at the workplace (very enlightening experience) and it described a bit “how Danes are”. These are too generalizations in a way but it is true that there are some traits that can be said to be shared among a specific population.
(that’s something a lot of internationals mention, by the way 
)
If the Latvian girl never experienced a Dane baking a cake before she might be misled to think that Danes don’t bake. There’s a big leap there but it’s sort of the same as if I said: “Danes don´t usually wear very colorful clothes”. Of course there are some that do, but in general people wears more greys, blacks and browns in my opinion
I don’t know, sometimes lack of knowledge leads people to wrong assumptions. I guess we’ll have to keep fighting and proving them wrong
I agree, I agreee, I agree:-) I just have to ad, that I realise that I was in the wrong to, when losing respect for her, solely based on her coment – cause, that of course didn’t represent the entire “her”. Ya esta:)
In your defense I need to add that it was a bit silly of her to think that Danes don’t bake just because nobody brings homemade cakes to her workplace
I still can’t understand why the danish universities are going to have to reject foreign students. Hopefully I will be offered a place within the next days at the danish university that I’m applying for and, as you mentioned, I won’t get any grant from the danish government at all. In fact, given the current situation, probably I will only be offered the Erasmus programme grant. The only “benefit” I’ll get is that I’m not going to get charged for the tuition fees (because, indeed, I pay these at my home university), but on the other hand I’m going to pay a lot of taxes and accomodation. It’s a question of weighing up the benefits and costs, and I think Denmark loses out rejecting foreign students.
I guess the thing is that the money the country gets is in form of taxes, whereas the money the country loses is from the education budget. I don’t know if that has something to do with it, but I understand that tuition fees are expensive (in Spain we only pay part of it, if the university is “public” and it’s still expensive). At this point, it’s better for them to enroll students that are not from the EU, because they have to pay the total fee for the studies they apply for.
Also, the fact that they’re reducing the number of spots for following years will cause that (depending on what are the requisites in each home university) better students come here. I mean, if where there were 10 students before, now there will be 5 (and I just making this up, they are not cutting down 50% of the spots), it’ll be the best 5 out of the 10.
Good luck with your Erasmus
Thanks!
) there would be many discrepancies between the costs of tuition fees. It’s a difficult question to deal with…
I guess it would be more fair if I paid the tuition fees at the host university instead. After all, I’m not going to stay at my home university so I don’t know why they’re still charging me these fees. But, as you said, since there are students who come from public universities (as in my case, I’m also from Spain
Maybe it’s not that bad the idea of reducing the number of spots, in fact Denmark was the country that offered more places among all the countries I had the choice to go.
I find it really stupid that we pay for a matriculation in our Erasmus at our home unis. What are we paying for? Administrative issues? I don’t really understand it. The money should go to the university who’s receiving the students, at least a percentatge. But yeah, I guess arranging something like that would be too difficult.
I come from UB (in Barcelona) and in Biology there was only 2 or 3 spots for Aarhus University, I think. That was 3 years ago, though.
What faculty are you coming from?
I don’t understand it either… but actually students coming from public universities are better off this way. Otherwise, it’s probably they would pay more.
I’m from Barcelona too! I’m studying energy engineering at UPC and I’m going next February to Aaborg, which I think is quite near to Aarhus.
PD: De fet podia haver contestat en català o castellà pero imagino que així pot entendre la gent que llegeix el blog de que estem parlant…
and by the way, in my studies there are 6 spots for Aalborg University, whereas for other universities around Europe there is an average of 2 spots
Podries haver contestat en català, sí, però aleshores la gent no podria llegir els nostres interessantíssims comentaris! ;P
So many engineers coming to Denmark! To study or to work
Try and make contacts while you are here to see if maybe you can land in an intership or something ^^
Aalborg is about 1h train ride from Aarhus, yes
Not very much, but not very cheap 
I guess the reason of so many engineers coming to Denmark is that this country is at the leading edge of engineering (specially in wind power systems, so much wind there!) and its universities have very good programmes and collaborations with the industry. So I’ll try my best to find an internship or even a job in order to stay longer. Since employment prospects are not very good in Spain, I’m really considering the possibility of starting my career in Denmark.
Hi Victor
I recommend you check out Stepstone.dk,
It-jobbank.dk, (perhaps also Randstad and Adecco). Especially the first two are used(as I understand it) by foreigners searching for jobs/interships here in Danmark;)
Anne
Thank you very much Anne! I take note of those websites. Randstad and Adecco are also used in Spain (and internationally I guess), but the first two seem really helpful. I’ve noticed that Lego is looking for engineers, it could be a very cool place to work!
You are very welcome – working at Lego would definetely be cool;)
Speaking of Lego – Mayby you have already seen this video on Youtube – a Lego Man searching for a job in the construction business!! Really funny:-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qZy6ARqGC4
For high-skilled internationals looking for jobs I would definitely recommend workindenmark.dk, since they specialize on helping qualified foreigners find a job in Denmark
It’d also be a good idea to try and find a student job first, while on uni, just to get into the Danish labor market a bit (starts are always hard!) but this is definitely a good place for engineers to settle
Anne, I hadn’t seen that video before, it’s hilarious!
Natalia, definitely starting with a student job is far better as you are able to gain experience in your field and afterwards you’re more likely to find a job. Here in Barcelona I’ve already worked as an intern thanks to internship programmes at uni, maybe there is something similar at Aalborg University.
Victor: I didn’t know how else to contact you. I’ve just spend some time with my sister, and she told me that Maersk Oil is always in need of engineers. And it is supposedly a nice place to work:-) At the moment they seek 150 engineers…yes 150! I know you’re still a student, but now you can add them to your list.
Anne
That’s so sweet of you, Anne! I hope Victor will get to read it!
The fact that there is going to be set limits is quite fair and good judgement from my point of view, both since most universities are fully booked on the courses which are of interest, as well as the fact that meanwhile your not here because of any economic incentives, i know for a fact that several of the students we had in my bachelor courses only chose to go to Denmark because its free, which they actually pointed out themselves.
I havent really had any in depth knowledge on the situation in rest of Europe, but as far as i can understand it seems like the enrollment is only being adjusted to fit the fact that new students have to meet some sort of a standard – which is totally fair since the same obligations are required for the danish students.
I must admit I started from the basis of not knowing how many spots are actually offered. I mean, when I was an exchange student, there weren’t many spots available in Denmark, specially in Aarhus, but that changes for every faculty and apparently in other places they offer a lot of spots.
About standards, for exchange students might only be a level of English and a number of ECTS, but full degree students have to fulfill pretty much the same standards as a Dane – I believe.
It is sad that people decides to come here just because education is free, without giving importance to the quality of the education
Isn’t higher education also free in Norway and Sweden?
Anne: Thank you! I really appreciate it. This first-hand information you’re giving me is very valuable
150 vacancies! seems like I’ve seen more job offers (related to engineering) in Denmark in a few days than in Spain throughout this year..
By the way, I read this blog regularly but you can also contact me via e-mail: vgmestre(at)gmail.com
I come from Croatia. In Croatia you have to compete with other students to get into ERASMUS program (because there is a limit how many can go from each department) for only one semester. The University pays that one semester of your exchange program, if you want to stay for another semester you’ll have to pay for everything out of your own pocket. I wanted to apply for ERASMUS but my department/university wasn’t connected to the Aarhus university, where I wanted to study since my boyfriend was there. I got a responce from my university that if I want to go there I have to bring all the documentation about the university and about the subjects. I was shocked that I had to do everything on my own and I MIGHT get accepted. On the other hand a lot of people who came from ERASMUS said that they didn’t manage to finish the semester because they had to come back to croatia before the exams started and therefor have to fail the year….. I didn’t want to risk it so I quit on that plan. The reflection you made, about the good things ERASMUS has brought into your life. Try looking it like this: I have been in a long distance relationship with a dane for 7 YEARS. I couldn’t come to Denmark before because as a non EU country all the doores we’re closed for me. Now that I’ve finally finished my education (masters degree in IT) and moved here, I have to go back after 3 months because I couldn’t find a job, even though my job is on the positive list. I once again have to leave my sweetheart until next time I can come here or until I get a job in Denmark. Also, I can’t marry him, because he’s half a year too young for our marriage to count, and me to get permit to stay. Foreigners are lately having really hard time getting to stay in Denmark. 1 year ago I could have stayed without any problem, and today all the doors are closed for me, just because i’m not from EU. My education, my skills in danish and my relationship don’t matter.
Dear Irena,
Unfortunately, I know how hard it is to beat the bureaucracy in order to come here (not from personal experience, but for having heard plenty of first-hand stories about it).
It shouldn’t be extremely hard to find a job in IT, but of course without experience and all, it will definitely take more than the 3 months you are allowed to stay 
that is a very sad situation you’re in
The fact that the students from Croatia need to come back without having done the exams seems crazy to me. Is that because of Danish residence permits or is it a problem with the Universities agreements?
7 years is a lot of time, and I really hope you will be able to be back to him soon
Worst case scenario, it’s only 6 months left – although I understand it’s hard to have to get married just to get paperwork done
Is the situation getting worse? (you said one year ago you could have stayed?). I thought that with the new government things would start to look better for foreigners.
Students can be for a specific number of months in the other country. I’m not sure how much, but a lot of my friends came back saying that some exams were later in the month and they couldn’t take them because they had to go back…
Well, we have been talking about marriage for last 4 years. We don’t want get married because of the paperwork (and we probably won’t). But we can’t get married and live in 2 different countries (which also makes having children impossible as well), that would be stupid. So my whole life is now on hold. Hopefully 1st July when Croatia enters EU will bring a bit of sunshine into this matter.
1 year ago there were ways of going around 24 year old rule and family reunification. As in: his parents paying for my expanses, proving that we have been living together for 1 year (our travels to one another added together) and so on… Now there are no such rules.
Reference* not attachment:))))